Good effort. Drop the reference to a specific fine amount, that’s not how it works in the military. Under the UCMJ, there are not specific fines assigned to a particular charge or sentence.
Also drop of the 1 – 5. There are no minimums assigned to charges in the military. There is a maximum. Also, the range of punishments can be from “no punishment (effectively the conviction is enough)” to a term of years, a dishonorable discharge, and reduction in rank to the lowest enlisted paygrade.
You are correct that when incorporating a federal statute under Article 134(3) (clause 3), you go to the federal statute for the confinement maximums.
However, the monetary punishment can be as follows:
1. Total forfeiture of all pay and allowances.
2. Fines can be a little odd. A fine be given in all situations. You don’t look to a statute for a fine amount. Also, the Members (jury) can impose an amount of confinement to be served in the event the fine is not paid. Of course there are post-trial procedures where an accused can show he can’t pay the fine.
3. Also, a period of confinement is not adjudged per charge. In the military we have what we call unitary sentencing. That means one sentence to a period of confinement which is intended to cover all of the charges of which convicted.
Assume for example he is convicted of everything. Add up the total years per charge and that is the maximum possible. The Members could hear all the evidence and decide 10 years is the appropriate sentence, and that’s what he gets.
Also, as in the civilian community he can negotiate a pretrial agreement limiting his sentence in exchange for guilty pleas.
Snake, and my comment to that.
I’m not convinced the “writer” understands.
2010-07-07 03:54
Snake
mljucmj, thanks for your input.
2010-07-07 06:28
Mike Gogulski (Autor)
@Major Variola: I don’t think so. The language from the Espionage Act is “to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation”. I’d expect proceedings to turn on the first clause here, rather than the second, since WikiLeaks is arguably not an agency of an nation, Assange’s Australian citizenship status notwithstanding.
[...] can see a complete list of the charges here on the Help Bradley Manning website. If you think that site is stomach-churning, check out the [...]
2010-07-07 09:53
Mike Gogulski (Autor)
@mljucmj: Thanks for the input. I’ve corrected the 1-5 years bits, and added more clarification in the footnote.
Incidentally, my max penalty tallies here to 68 years, while Ltc. Bloom has been quoted as saying 52 years. If the government were not contemplating the greater loss provisions of §1030(a), that would account for the discrepancy since there is a 1-year tier and a 5-year tier.
My impression regarding the fines is that the USC still provides an upper bound upon them, which is applicable to the court martial as well. If you can point me to legal text which shows otherwise, I’d be happy to remove the notations. I know you’re an expert, I’d just like to see the authority.
I forgot to include it here, but I believe all of these charges also carry a dishonorable discharge as a possible penalty.
As regards the notion that the charge sheets aren’t authentic, not only is the beforeitsnews.com “writer” full of baloney, he also DELETED my comment on that article in which I published the full email headers of the communique I received from Ltc. Bloom. Apparently for that site, crying “conspiracy!” is far more important than truth.
There is only one point about the “beforeitstoolatenews” piece.
Here’s what I take away from the absence of a signatures in Block 11. Whoever distributed this copy of the charge sheet did before preferral and before the trial counsel arranged for service on Manning. Thus someone in the Staff Judge Advocate/Military Justice Office gave this to the media or a source while the charge sheet was still in preparation.
This is not a fraud. It is however, not complete. So, if this is what Manning has been given they haven’t done it right. However, it is not unusual for rough drafts to be circulated. It would be highly unusual for a draft to go to Manning or even his defense counsel.
I’m curious who sent this document out? Doesn’t make it a fraud or illegal, but odd.
Cheers.
2010-07-10 06:28
Rodney
He is truly NOT any hero. He should stay in jail and then prison for many years. His Espionage Act is not justified and he fit well into the catagory as a spy and should pay the price for what he did for stealing classified information. He posted and distributed information without proper release because he stole it. He is not a loyal american and is like any other terrorist trying to damage the United States and the military.
I have no doubt you are sure of yourself whereever you go. Your type have no reasoning capability, and therefore, once someone has told you what to believe, you live your life without question. It’s a sad affair, but very common. You’ll probably wet yourself over this page:
However, with an quick and efficient webmaster such as Mike G., who needs to guess?
2010-07-23 21:39
Justin L
They will rake him over the coals to make an example so no one else decides to be a hero and give up information. IMO the US is about to reap what “we” (I use the word loosely)have sown. Eleven point five million killed in the holocaust (give or take a million), and over five hundred million babies aborted in the US alone. We induldge in Lady Gaga, and the View while innocent civilians and documenters who try to inform the sleeping masses of the TRUTH get mowed down by the machine know as the US of AmeriKa. I love my country. I am only 27 years old. In my short time on earth I have wittnessed many horrible changes….can we even begin to imagine what our world will look like in 10 -15 years? Will there be one left? Praise the Lord Christ Almighty I don’t have to worry anymore!
Bradley Manning Unterstützer Netzwerk - Alle Inhalte dieser Webseite unterliegen, wenn nicht anders vermerkt, Public Domain. Link und Quellenangabe erbeten - Lasst Bradley Manning frei.
Are any charges specific to Assange being a non-US
citizen?
Thanks for the effort.
We cut ‘em in half with a machine gun and give ‘em a Band-Aid.
It was a lie.
And the more I saw them, the more I hated lies.
@Major Variola:
I don’t think the DoD gives a shit whether Assange is US or not.
They are conducting PSYOP against Wikileaks atm (ref Wikileaks released info dating two years back or so)
Good effort. Drop the reference to a specific fine amount, that’s not how it works in the military. Under the UCMJ, there are not specific fines assigned to a particular charge or sentence.
Also drop of the 1 – 5. There are no minimums assigned to charges in the military. There is a maximum. Also, the range of punishments can be from “no punishment (effectively the conviction is enough)” to a term of years, a dishonorable discharge, and reduction in rank to the lowest enlisted paygrade.
You are correct that when incorporating a federal statute under Article 134(3) (clause 3), you go to the federal statute for the confinement maximums.
However, the monetary punishment can be as follows:
1. Total forfeiture of all pay and allowances.
2. Fines can be a little odd. A fine be given in all situations. You don’t look to a statute for a fine amount. Also, the Members (jury) can impose an amount of confinement to be served in the event the fine is not paid. Of course there are post-trial procedures where an accused can show he can’t pay the fine.
3. Also, a period of confinement is not adjudged per charge. In the military we have what we call unitary sentencing. That means one sentence to a period of confinement which is intended to cover all of the charges of which convicted.
Assume for example he is convicted of everything. Add up the total years per charge and that is the maximum possible. The Members could hear all the evidence and decide 10 years is the appropriate sentence, and that’s what he gets.
Also, as in the civilian community he can negotiate a pretrial agreement limiting his sentence in exchange for guilty pleas.
Cheers.
Please see this guys.
http://beforeitsnews.com/news/94/397/Wikileaks_Manning_DD_458_document_are_NOT_AUTHENTIC.html
Snake, and my comment to that.
I’m not convinced the “writer” understands.
mljucmj, thanks for your input.
@Major Variola: I don’t think so. The language from the Espionage Act is “to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation”. I’d expect proceedings to turn on the first clause here, rather than the second, since WikiLeaks is arguably not an agency of an nation, Assange’s Australian citizenship status notwithstanding.
[...] can see a complete list of the charges here on the Help Bradley Manning website. If you think that site is stomach-churning, check out the [...]
[...] can see a complete list of the charges here on the Help Bradley Manning website. If you think that site is stomach-churning, check out the [...]
@mljucmj: Thanks for the input. I’ve corrected the 1-5 years bits, and added more clarification in the footnote.
Incidentally, my max penalty tallies here to 68 years, while Ltc. Bloom has been quoted as saying 52 years. If the government were not contemplating the greater loss provisions of §1030(a), that would account for the discrepancy since there is a 1-year tier and a 5-year tier.
My impression regarding the fines is that the USC still provides an upper bound upon them, which is applicable to the court martial as well. If you can point me to legal text which shows otherwise, I’d be happy to remove the notations. I know you’re an expert, I’d just like to see the authority.
I forgot to include it here, but I believe all of these charges also carry a dishonorable discharge as a possible penalty.
As regards the notion that the charge sheets aren’t authentic, not only is the beforeitsnews.com “writer” full of baloney, he also DELETED my comment on that article in which I published the full email headers of the communique I received from Ltc. Bloom. Apparently for that site, crying “conspiracy!” is far more important than truth.
http://beforeitsnews.com/news/95/411/BREAKING_NEWS_Official_documents_are_FORGERIES._You_be_the_Judge.html
@Jacob: Bollocks. beforeitsnews.com credibility: zero.
There is only one point about the “beforeitstoolatenews” piece.
Here’s what I take away from the absence of a signatures in Block 11. Whoever distributed this copy of the charge sheet did before preferral and before the trial counsel arranged for service on Manning. Thus someone in the Staff Judge Advocate/Military Justice Office gave this to the media or a source while the charge sheet was still in preparation.
This is not a fraud. It is however, not complete. So, if this is what Manning has been given they haven’t done it right. However, it is not unusual for rough drafts to be circulated. It would be highly unusual for a draft to go to Manning or even his defense counsel.
I’m curious who sent this document out? Doesn’t make it a fraud or illegal, but odd.
Cheers.
He is truly NOT any hero. He should stay in jail and then prison for many years. His Espionage Act is not justified and he fit well into the catagory as a spy and should pay the price for what he did for stealing classified information. He posted and distributed information without proper release because he stole it. He is not a loyal american and is like any other terrorist trying to damage the United States and the military.
Rodney, your views are probably more welcome elsewhere, say like: whitehouse.gov or army.mil.
I have no doubt you are sure of yourself whereever you go. Your type have no reasoning capability, and therefore, once someone has told you what to believe, you live your life without question. It’s a sad affair, but very common. You’ll probably wet yourself over this page:
http://www.constitution.org/col/propaganda_army.htm
So, get out your GI Joe and have fun.
Rodney joins us today as:
Author : Rodney (IP: 132.79.9.16 , hcascrmnwc02.ngb.army.mil)
LOL! Of course he does… who would’ve guessed?
However, with an quick and efficient webmaster such as Mike G., who needs to guess?
They will rake him over the coals to make an example so no one else decides to be a hero and give up information. IMO the US is about to reap what “we” (I use the word loosely)have sown. Eleven point five million killed in the holocaust (give or take a million), and over five hundred million babies aborted in the US alone. We induldge in Lady Gaga, and the View while innocent civilians and documenters who try to inform the sleeping masses of the TRUTH get mowed down by the machine know as the US of AmeriKa. I love my country. I am only 27 years old. In my short time on earth I have wittnessed many horrible changes….can we even begin to imagine what our world will look like in 10 -15 years? Will there be one left? Praise the Lord Christ Almighty I don’t have to worry anymore!