Bradley Manning Support Network komentarai http://bradleymanning.org Exposing war crimes is not a crime! Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:02:35 +0000 hourly 1 Įrašo „(English) Manning Supporters Detained by Quantico“ komentaras, kurį parašė Steve Newcomb http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16034/breaking-news-manning-supporters-detained-by-quantico/comment-page-1/#comment-12328 Steve Newcomb Mon, 07 Mar 2011 17:02:35 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16034#comment-12328 Which pundits and which politicians have taken a position on Manning's treatment? I haven't noticed anyone taking a position. Maybe they're all on Fox News, which I rarely watch. It might be useful to make a little list, right here. If you see someone taking a position, make a note of the date and time, the communications channel, and what he/she said. (I have often seen public figures speak as though the Guantanamo prisoners are guilty, which is denies them the presumption of innocence, but similar remarks about the Manning detention would take such misbehavior to a whole new level. BTW, Al, I think you understate the truth: the Oklahoma City Bomber was certainly treated more humanely than Bradley Manning is being treated. What we're seeing here is something that has been growing for many decades: the use of term "war" to excuse illegal behavior. The War on Drugs excuses, among many other things, the oppressive RICO Act, under which private property is unreasonably seized by government authorities without due process, on the theory that the property committed the crime, and property has no claim on due process. The War on Terror excuses the murder of myriad civilians in the middle east, the theory that persons detained abroad (as in Guantanamo or the CIA's black site facilities) have no right to due process, Bradley Manning's pretrial punishment, and the physical abuse of Ray McGovern by Hillary Clinton's security people, and the unreasonable search of all electronic communications by the Bush and Obama administrations, among many other things. But the central truth about our fascination with war is much worse than any of that. In the U.S., evidently *any* kind of war -- even the war between Republicans and Democrats -- excuses the high moral crimes of bearing false witness, election frauds, etc for which there never seems to be any accountability. We cannot hope to find our way if we keep blinding each other and/or sabotaging our policy-making processes. The saying "In war, truth is the first casualty" is at least 2500 years old, but we Americans have found a clever way to exploit that insight in the Information Age: "To kill the truth, have a war." If there isn't any war handy, just claim that there is one, and that everybody knows it. There will be one soon enough. If truth is our friend, then war is our enemy. And that's a fact! Which pundits and which politicians have taken a position on Manning’s treatment? I haven’t noticed anyone taking a position. Maybe they’re all on Fox News, which I rarely watch. It might be useful to make a little list, right here. If you see someone taking a position, make a note of the date and time, the communications channel, and what he/she said.

(I have often seen public figures speak as though the Guantanamo prisoners are guilty, which is denies them the presumption of innocence, but similar remarks about the Manning detention would take such misbehavior to a whole new level. BTW, Al, I think you understate the truth: the Oklahoma City Bomber was certainly treated more humanely than Bradley Manning is being treated.

What we’re seeing here is something that has been growing for many decades: the use of term „war“ to excuse illegal behavior. The War on Drugs excuses, among many other things, the oppressive RICO Act, under which private property is unreasonably seized by government authorities without due process, on the theory that the property committed the crime, and property has no claim on due process. The War on Terror excuses the murder of myriad civilians in the middle east, the theory that persons detained abroad (as in Guantanamo or the CIA’s black site facilities) have no right to due process, Bradley Manning’s pretrial punishment, and the physical abuse of Ray McGovern by Hillary Clinton’s security people, and the unreasonable search of all electronic communications by the Bush and Obama administrations, among many other things.

But the central truth about our fascination with war is much worse than any of that. In the U.S., evidently *any* kind of war — even the war between Republicans and Democrats — excuses the high moral crimes of bearing false witness, election frauds, etc for which there never seems to be any accountability. We cannot hope to find our way if we keep blinding each other and/or sabotaging our policy-making processes. The saying „In war, truth is the first casualty“ is at least 2500 years old, but we Americans have found a clever way to exploit that insight in the Information Age: „To kill the truth, have a war.“ If there isn’t any war handy, just claim that there is one, and that everybody knows it. There will be one soon enough.

If truth is our friend, then war is our enemy. And that’s a fact!

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Įrašo „(English) Bradley Manning Support Network Praises New Advocacy Organization“ komentaras, kurį parašė Charlotte Burns http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16178/bradley-manning-support-network-praises-new-advocacy-organization/comment-page-1/#comment-12316 Charlotte Burns Mon, 07 Mar 2011 12:44:56 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16178#comment-12316 It's scary to see what is happening to whisleblowers lately. Bradley Birkensfeld, who exposed tax cheats hiding money in Swiss banks rots in jail; Tim DeChristopher, who tried to stop the sale of our national forests to mining interests and even came up with the money to pay for his bid was found guilty; and Bradley Manning, the brave young man who dared to expose the atrocities of the military we pay for rots in the most draconian, Victor Hugonian circumstances. This is America? This is the country that I was taught was the best country in the world, the envy of the world, the land of the free, while our competition, the Soviets, had gulags, torture, forced confessions, a one party system, spying on its citizens, confiscating and ransacking of "suspects" without warrents. Sound familiar. Pretty disgusting. Sieg Hiel here we come! It’s scary to see what is happening to whisleblowers lately. Bradley Birkensfeld, who exposed tax cheats hiding money in Swiss banks rots in jail; Tim DeChristopher, who tried to stop the sale of our national forests to mining interests and even came up with the money to pay for his bid was found guilty; and Bradley Manning, the brave young man who dared to expose the atrocities of the military we pay for rots in the most draconian, Victor Hugonian circumstances. This is America? This is the country that I was taught was the best country in the world, the envy of the world, the land of the free, while our competition, the Soviets, had gulags, torture, forced confessions, a one party system, spying on its citizens, confiscating and ransacking of „suspects“ without warrents. Sound familiar.

Pretty disgusting. Sieg Hiel here we come!

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Įrašo „(English) Bradley Manning Faces Death Under New Charge of „Aiding Enemy““ komentaras, kurį parašė Dr. S M Babulanam http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16235/bradley-manning-facing-possible-death-penalty-under-new-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-12307 Dr. S M Babulanam Mon, 07 Mar 2011 09:45:52 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16235#comment-12307 Joseph Zrnchik, MAJ (Ret.) Can a soldier think? I had the doubt. Bernad Shaw wrote, "I do not think a soldier can think!" At school in 1960s I committed to memory Lord Tennyson's poem "Into the valley of death Rode the six hundred.... Not though the soldiers knew Some one had blundered Theirs not to make reply Theirs not to reason why Theirs but to do and die.. Into the valley of death Rode the six hundred...." In late 1960s, we the youths all over the world revolted in the hope of Plato's Democracy but got Roman Demoncracy instead. It makes me to tears whether the spirit of 1968 will be reincarnated in 2011 at the "Day of Rage World Wide" where Bradley Manning, who is younger than my children, is the vangurad. Hope is the last one can lose. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst! The Demons are sharpenning their knives!The kings and Dictators being suddely naked are shameless now! Joseph Zrnchik, MAJ (Ret.)

Can a soldier think? I had the doubt.
Bernad Shaw wrote, „I do not think a soldier can think!“

At school in 1960s I committed to memory Lord Tennyson’s poem
„Into the valley of death
Rode the six hundred….
Not though the soldiers knew
Some one had blundered
Theirs not to make reply
Theirs not to reason why
Theirs but to do and die..
Into the valley of death
Rode the six hundred….“

In late 1960s, we the youths all over the world revolted in the hope of Plato’s Democracy but got Roman Demoncracy instead. It makes me to tears whether the spirit of 1968 will be reincarnated in 2011 at the „Day of Rage World Wide“ where Bradley Manning, who is younger than my children, is the vangurad. Hope is the last one can lose. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst! The Demons are sharpenning their knives!The kings and Dictators being suddely naked are shameless now!

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Įrašo „(English) Congressman Dennis Kucinich Renews Demand to Visit with Pfc. Manning“ komentaras, kurį parašė Randall Sparks http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16282/congressman-dennis-kucinich-renews-demand-to-visit-with-pfc-manning/comment-page-1/#comment-12302 Randall Sparks Mon, 07 Mar 2011 07:41:19 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16282#comment-12302 Dear President Obama you are head of the U.S. Military and I am asking you to give fair treatment to private Manning it your responsibility to give this to an American. Please do not torture him and if you have stop don't be like George Bush and Dick Chaney but you forgave them mabe the next president won't forgive you. Dear President Obama you are head of the U.S. Military and I am asking you to give fair treatment to private Manning it your responsibility to give this to an American. Please do not torture him and if you have stop
don’t be like George Bush and Dick Chaney but you forgave them mabe the next president won’t forgive you.

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Įrašo „(English) Bradley Manning Faces Death Under New Charge of „Aiding Enemy““ komentaras, kurį parašė J G http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16235/bradley-manning-facing-possible-death-penalty-under-new-charges/comment-page-1/#comment-12297 J G Mon, 07 Mar 2011 06:20:50 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16235#comment-12297 Well said. Agreed 100%. Bradley is a hero and an example to us all. Let's not allow him to become a martyr! And let's extend the day of rage to Canada, indeed all of North America! Well said. Agreed 100%. Bradley is a hero and an example to us all. Let’s not allow him to become a martyr! And let’s extend the day of rage to Canada, indeed all of North America!

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Įrašo „(English) The Truth Behind Quantico Brig’s Decision to Strip PFC Manning“ komentaras, kurį parašė Spy Hater Hater http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16294/the-truth-behind-quantico-brigs-decision-to-strip-pfc-manning/comment-page-1/#comment-12288 Spy Hater Hater Mon, 07 Mar 2011 04:15:08 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16294#comment-12288 Wow, hater.. you have personally found the man guilty of being a "spy" and that gives you license to "hate" him? Certainly more than enough for me to hate you. This country has been dragged into the gutter by POSs proclaiming themselves to be "patriots" and everyone who dares to stand against them as "enemies" for decades. WTF ever happened to a country that once upon a time pretended to be free?? Wow, hater.. you have personally found the man guilty of being a „spy“ and that gives you license to „hate“ him? Certainly more than enough for me to hate you. This country has been dragged into the gutter by POSs proclaiming themselves to be „patriots“ and everyone who dares to stand against them as „enemies“ for decades. WTF ever happened to a country that once upon a time pretended to be free??

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Įrašo „(English) The Truth Behind Quantico Brig’s Decision to Strip PFC Manning“ komentaras, kurį parašė Nigel Parry http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16294/the-truth-behind-quantico-brigs-decision-to-strip-pfc-manning/comment-page-1/#comment-12284 Nigel Parry Mon, 07 Mar 2011 03:34:01 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16294#comment-12284 We started protesting tonight on Quantico's Facebook page. Their admins shut it down. Here's the story: http://nigelparry.com/news/quantico-facebook-censoring.shtml Go protest on the US Marine Facebook page. The link is at the bottom of this article. We started protesting tonight on Quantico’s Facebook page. Their admins shut it down. Here’s the story:
http://nigelparry.com/news/quantico-facebook-censoring.shtml

Go protest on the US Marine Facebook page. The link is at the bottom of this article.

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Įrašo „(English) Manning Supporters Detained by Quantico“ komentaras, kurį parašė Al Davis http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16034/breaking-news-manning-supporters-detained-by-quantico/comment-page-1/#comment-12278 Al Davis Mon, 07 Mar 2011 02:34:45 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16034#comment-12278 The military justice system may actually suprise every one, it did me in 1968, but it could go the other way also. Money will help this effort, but bringing attention to collateral murder every chance you can get, show it to everyone, will get what needs to be done. Wikileaks is the only hope, Bradley Manning, a real patriot! The talking heads/politician have all positioned themselves on this issue, we know who they are, use the information against them. Show your grama the collateral murder, show your radical right friends!! They can;t deny the obvious! Tell them why Bradley is in prison instead of a Jay Leno talk show! Bradley Manning is getting the treatment of the Oklahoma City bomber! The military justice system may actually suprise every one, it did me in 1968, but it could go the other way also.

Money will help this effort, but bringing attention to collateral murder every chance you can get, show it to everyone, will get what needs to be done.
Wikileaks is the only hope, Bradley Manning, a real patriot!
The talking heads/politician have all positioned themselves on this issue, we know who they are, use the information against them.
Show your grama the collateral murder, show your radical right friends!! They can;t deny the obvious! Tell them why Bradley is in prison instead of a Jay Leno talk show!

Bradley Manning is getting the treatment of the Oklahoma City bomber!

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Įrašo „(English) Bradley Manning stripped, left naked“ komentaras, kurį parašė Ricardo Camilo Lopez http://bradleymanning.org/lt/16261/manning-stripped-and-left-naked-ltc-coombs-report/comment-page-1/#comment-12275 Ricardo Camilo Lopez Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:48:21 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?p=16261#comment-12275 ~ We at the Church I am a member of here in Harlem/NYC (http://stmarysharlem.wordpress.com/) are very socially oriented and are very much against the war ... These are discusions that started from this thread, so I'll keep it here in case I post some comments in reference to it ~ Sorry for getting a bit abusive, guys! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > I find the translation of the Brecht poem to leave me wondering if that's really what he said. ~ About Brecht's poem; I do speak German (I went to school in Germany (in fact eine Samlung of my German poems was published)) and I can tell you that that was a word-by-word literal translation of his poem ~ Deutsche Kriegsfibel aus den Svendborger Gedichten von Bertolt Brecht. Svendborg in Dänemark war von 1933 bis 1938 dessen erste längere Station im Exil. Auswahl und Einrichtung der Gedichte durch den Komponisten. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ General, dein Tank ist ein starker Wagen. Er bricht Wälder nieder. Er zermalmt hundert Menschen. Aber er hat einen Fehler: Er braucht einen Fahrer. General, dein Bombenflugzeug ist stark. Es fliegt schneller als der Sturm und trägt mehr als ein Elefant. Aber es hat einen Fehler: Es braucht einen Monteur. General, der Mensch ist sehr brauchbar. Er kann fliegen, er kann töten. Aber er hat einen Fehler ... Er kann denken. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > It seems a bit simplistic to be sure and I would have to know more what's behind Brecht's intentions. ~ What's behind Brecht's intentions he himself explicitly wrote/expressed in his poem, no? ;-) Part of his "intentions" definitely relates to his personal biographical life, as someone who didn't seem to like a bit the militarism of his countrymen ~ About: "Democracy may not be a perfect system of gov't but it sure beats a lot of other forms of gov't". ~ All I would say right now is that after growing up in Castro/communist Cuba and living in the states for 15 years, I have grown thoroughly tired of "philosophies" and "politics"/politicians. And with "politicians" I mean of all talks and walks including "Obama", "Putin", "Chavez", "Sarkozy"... ~ It all boils down to "quality of implementation" issues. What is the point of, say, having a "free" media, when Bradly Manning is in prison, pretty much awaiting a death penalty or a life sentence for doing the job that "journalists"/the media should be doing?!? "Representative Democracy" to me more of another way of lying and entertaining illusions, fencing people's minds … if people pay their taxes directly why "democratically" electing a government to play with it as they please? ~ At the end of the day what matter are people! ~ > ... the US gov't does cross lines of ethical and moral decency in its quest to "save the world from dictatorships and such" ~ Actually the US gov backs plenty of dictatorships and abuses when it serves their purpose. They, all of a sudden @@, realized Hosni Mubarak was a ruthless dictator (after supporting him/his regime for 3 decades ;-)) and not long ago the Thai military brutally abused protesters, but the US gov backed them (always taking care of "looking good" illusions) because they are "allies" … and yes regarding Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, … I think it is about time the US gov starts talking sense to themselves, but they are not going to freely do it out of their good senses as the good fellows they are, people like Bradly Manning and the rest of us must throw their sh!t back on their faces and stand in their ways, for them to start making sense of themselves ... ~ C ~
We at the Church I am a member of here in Harlem/NYC (http://stmarysharlem.wordpress.com/) are very socially oriented and are very much against the war … These are discusions that started from this thread, so I’ll keep it here in case I post some comments in reference to it
~
Sorry for getting a bit abusive, guys!
~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> I find the translation of the Brecht poem to leave me wondering if that’s really what he said.
~
About Brecht’s poem; I do speak German (I went to school in Germany (in fact eine Samlung of my German poems was published)) and I can tell you that that was a word-by-word literal translation of his poem
~
Deutsche Kriegsfibel aus den Svendborger Gedichten von Bertolt Brecht. Svendborg in Dänemark war von 1933 bis 1938 dessen erste längere Station im Exil. Auswahl und Einrichtung der Gedichte durch den Komponisten.
~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~
General, dein Tank ist ein starker Wagen.
Er bricht Wälder nieder. Er zermalmt hundert Menschen.
Aber er hat einen Fehler: Er braucht einen Fahrer.

General, dein Bombenflugzeug ist stark.
Es fliegt schneller als der Sturm und trägt mehr als ein Elefant.
Aber es hat einen Fehler: Es braucht einen Monteur.

General, der Mensch ist sehr brauchbar.
Er kann fliegen, er kann töten.
Aber er hat einen Fehler …

Er kann denken.
~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~
> It seems a bit simplistic to be sure and I would have to know more what’s behind Brecht’s intentions.
~
What’s behind Brecht’s intentions he himself explicitly wrote/expressed in his poem, no? ;-) Part of his „intentions“ definitely relates to his personal biographical life, as someone who didn’t seem to like a bit the militarism of his countrymen
~
About: „Democracy may not be a perfect system of gov’t but it sure beats a lot of other forms of gov’t“.
~
All I would say right now is that after growing up in Castro/communist Cuba and living in the states for 15 years, I have grown thoroughly tired of „philosophies“ and „politics“/politicians. And with „politicians“ I mean of all talks and walks including „Obama“, „Putin“, „Chavez“, „Sarkozy“…
~
It all boils down to „quality of implementation“ issues. What is the point of, say, having a „free“ media, when Bradly Manning is in prison, pretty much awaiting a death penalty or a life sentence for doing the job that „journalists“/the media should be doing?!? „Representative Democracy“ to me more of another way of lying and entertaining illusions, fencing people’s minds … if people pay their taxes directly why „democratically“ electing a government to play with it as they please?
~
At the end of the day what matter are people!
~
> … the US gov’t does cross lines of ethical and moral decency in its quest to „save the world from dictatorships and such“
~
Actually the US gov backs plenty of dictatorships and abuses when it serves their purpose. They, all of a sudden @@, realized Hosni Mubarak was a ruthless dictator (after supporting him/his regime for 3 decades ;-) ) and not long ago the Thai military brutally abused protesters, but the US gov backed them (always taking care of „looking good“ illusions) because they are „allies“ … and yes regarding Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, … I think it is about time the US gov starts talking sense to themselves, but they are not going to freely do it out of their good senses as the good fellows they are, people like Bradly Manning and the rest of us must throw their sh!t back on their faces and stand in their ways, for them to start making sense of themselves …
~
C

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Įrašo „(English) Recap: Days of Action“ komentaras, kurį parašė Hypatia http://bradleymanning.org/lt/what-can-i-do/days-of-action/comment-page-1/#comment-12270 Hypatia Mon, 07 Mar 2011 01:06:55 +0000 http://bradleymanning.org/lt/?page_id=8595#comment-12270 Could we have more frequent updates on Bradley's condition? I am so worried about whether they will break him down with torture. Thank you. Could we have more frequent updates on Bradley’s condition? I am so worried about whether they will break him down with torture. Thank you.

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